Any chance you could elaborate at some point on the different rules to which you hold Marvel’s books vs. DC’s? Sounds like it would be an interesting topic to explore.

I don’t think the price point matters. Comics is such a small genre. The fans who make up the buying population aren’t going to suddenly stop reading GL or not buy the Obama appearence in X-men.

Direct market slowly killed comics. And things like Henry Pym saying “its on bitch” in an Avengers comic.

Seems silly but those types of things have more to do with the demise of the monthly then $1 increase. Fans whp find there way to comics shops..if they can find one willl pay any price to see Barry Allen race back to save the mutliverse from Professor Zoom!

I do agree comics are too much, and there should be an alternative. But that’s not stopping the already low sales we see across the board of comcis.

Batman and Robin is great. And I may not be reading Thor once JMS leaves. I definately won’t be reading it if Coipel also jumps ship.

Great column.

-aris

Ryan Frank it’s kind of a fast-n-loose set of rules I’ve come up with to kind of differentiate between what sorts of storytelling moves work in the DC Universe as opposed to the Marvel Universe. Among them, I see the classic DC comic book story as something akin to Greek epic myths, while the classic Marvel comic book story might be more like an allegory or a fable. DC characters are larger than life; Marvel characters are down to earth. DC is about the emblem on the costume; Marvel is about the men and women behind the masks.

For instance, you know that saying that involves separating “the forest from the trees?” Based on what I’ve read over the course of my life, I find that the DC Universe is more about the forest, while Marvel is about the trees. That is to say the details of any given story is more important in a Marvel comic than it is in DC.

Take Batman’s origin. Since Batman first came into print, his origin has always been:

(A)One night Bruce and his parents are accosted by a mugger
(B)Mugger named Joe Chill causes the death of Bruce’s parents.
(C)Bruce pledges his life to fighting crime.

Those are the broad strokes – but over the decades, the details have changed a great deal – first, Joe Chill shot both Thomas & Martha Wayne. Then, he shot only Thomas, and Martha suffered a heart attack. THEN, he shot them both again. Bruce encountered Joe Chill later on as an adult, then he never saw him again, and THEN he encountered Chill again. Lew Moxon put a hit out on the Waynes and Joe Chill was the triggerman – wait, NO he wasn’t! When the story of how Robin left Batman’s tutelage and became Nightwing was an amicable split – wait, no…it was a bitter breakup!

For me, this has been how DC has done things since nearly the beginning – so years and years later, when DC decides that Jason Todd is back among the living because Superboy punched a wall, I didn’t worry about it so much – the important thing is, he’s back among the living – let’s see how much it screws with Batman!

Now…with Marvel, things are a little different. Because their stories build upon each other, and that’s ALWAYS how it was because up until then most superhero stories, especially DC superhero stories were based on a simpler format of, “One day, Event A happened, and Superhero B reacted to it and established Resolution C and saved the day – the end.”

In order to set themselves apart, Marvel’s comics established a sense of continuity by building from that original Event A. So whether it was by accident or not – and I believe it was the latter, myself – THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN wasn’t so much “the Adventures of Spider-Man,” as it was “the Life & Times of Peter Parker.” It was as if we were reading Peter’s life story. So if something originally happened a certain way, that is how it happened. When you go back and reference it, that is how it happened. Because it goes to the character’s behavioral patterns.

That’s why I’d get so annoyed whenever Iron Man’s origin would get written and rewritten over and over again in the last decade. And that’s why Ed Brubaker had to make sure that when he resurrected Bucky Barnes, he had to have a plausible story for how it happened. Because the details matter in the Marvel Universe. That’s also why fans and readers hated it when Aunt May was resurrected after THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #400 – it took them out of the down-to-earth expectation that was created over some 30 years of reading Marvel comics, especially when Aunt May got such a moving and plausible send-off courtesy of J.M. DeMatteis.

Here’s hoping that was somewhat coherent…:-D

I totally agree with what your saying about Nightwing as Batman. HE DID IT BEFORE. Which is why i do not care for it. I collected Prodigal. It was enjpyable at the time from what I recall… I was about 13 so correct me if i am wrong.

But why should it be such a big deal as you stated. Hope morrsion pays more atention to that later some how… maybe he will make it so that Final Crisis made Prodigal not happen….

I’m hoping that Marvel will renew J. Michael Straczynski’s run on Thor. I can’t see anyone else handling this title at this point. Anyone below the par of JMS is just pissing in the faces of the readers.

Regarding Batman and Robin #2, Morrison and Quitely rock this mother! Everything from the action to the characters in this is pure poetry. But going on the Prodigal storyline, I feel that this was something that was done way before its time. The difference between then and now is that Bruce is “dead” and not semi-retired. Bruce kept the myth of Batman up for so long, any prolonged moments of MIA panics Gotham and the rumors of his “death” has fanned the fires. So now Dick is in a no choice situation with taking up the mantle of the bat. Another big difference is that Morrison is asking and answering questions that were never covered in the last time Dick wore the cowl. So I’m gonna stay turned to this storyline, same bat time, same bat channel (sorry, couldn’t help it).

btw, on the last page of #2, I’ll bet you he was playing DMX while riding his new whip. =P

On the affordable comics front line, we need to find out what goes into every penny of a 2.99-3.99 comic these days. If its the case of what movie theaters do with their snack bar, I wanna see someone strung up by their nuts or other private parts. It’s one more brick in the wall of “why comics are not getting new fans in these days” conversation. But I’ll bet Marvel and DC’s philosophy these days are “I WANT ALL YOUR MONEY RIGHT NOW!!!” So if we want real change, we need to send these fat ass pigs straight to the unemployment line and bring in new minds that think about the fans first and wallets further down the list.

Finally, thanks for posting the pages of Herobear and the Kid. I never read this book but seeing these pages just warmed my heart and brought a tear to my eye. My grandfather passed away too soon when I was in my teens. Reading these pages reminded me that he was a great part of my life I will never forget. He took me into the local comic shop and got me started into the world of superheroes. He may be gone but he is still with me in my memories and my heart. Thank you, Greg, for showing us a comic that reminds us there is still magic in the world and in the funny pages. =) Makes me long for books such as Calvin & Hobbes and Jeff Smith’s Shazam: Monster Society of Evil. These are books that can be the gateway to new readers. So long as the big guys realize that you can maintain your current fan base and bring in new ones without alienating both sides. It can be done.

Mr. Q

P.S.

As soon as she’s old enough, I will definitely introduce my niece to Calvin & Hobbes. It was my favorite comic strip growing up and it still is to this day.

I’m with you on that point, Q – a couple of Christmases ago my gf got me the Complete Calvin & Hobbes and it remains one of my favorite presents of recent memory…if not HEAVIEST present, too…

To me, the max a comic book should cost is $2.50. That’s how much SONIC THE HEDGEHOG costs, and it is worth EVERY penny. But anything higher than $2.50, to me just doesn’t seem right.

Now, regarding Dick Grayson and the role of Batman…he’s impersonated Batman at least three times – the third one was only for a two-part story: http://www.dcuguide.com/Bm/Bm_588.php

And you know, Gotham’s a funny place…In “Battle for the Cowl”, 6 months without Batman and nobody knows where he is…and Gotham goes insane in SPITE of the presence of Nightwing and Robin! But for “One Year Later,” Batman, Robin AND Nightwing disappear for a year…and their chief protector is Harvey Dent in a skullcap. Somehow, Gotham makes it!

That’s why you can’t bother with the details in a DC comic TOO much…cuz they’ve always rolled this way. Just go with it or you’ll make yourself nuts!

And I just have to add…I only hope that Mike Kunkel’s work on BILLY BATSON & THE MAGIC OF SHAZAM! will eventually lead us to more Herobear. Got to have it, Mike…more Herobear, please.

Greg:

You got a point. Personally, I feel sorry for anyone trying to explain Supergirl’s history from silver age to today. O_o There is not enough Advil in the world for that conversation. And yes, $2.50 is a reasonable price for comics these days. Not sure where the whole 99 cents mess came from. Maybe Dante from Clerks was on to something there.

Mr. Q

Personally, I would want comics priced at $1.50… because that’s a price that seemingly should be able to bring in enough capital to pay creators a fair wage (and covering production costs) while also allowing fans to pick up more books at less cost.

Lord knows, it’s the reason why I picked up so many differing books back in the 90’s, as I could easily scrounge that kind of money from just change in the house… but once it started hitting $1.99 to $2.50, books I’d grab off the shelf like West Coast Avengers were toast.

I’d have no problem with a $2.50 price-tag for an independent comic (there’s a more substantial reason for it to be priced like that) but not for mainstream ones… not unless Marvel was able to prove to me every cent was needed to give creators livable income and things like benefits, ETC.

I do want to say that I appreciate the Herobear pages because I’ve been curious about the book but I will never give Mike Kunkel a cent of my money for the way he treated a fellow comic creating friend of mine. I won’t repeat the story, but suffice to say it sucks that someone who created what looks to be a sweet and sentimental story could act like a supreme jerk.

As for stories that made me cry, I shed tears over Captain America#32, by Dan Jurgens and Jerry Ordway. Although it’s overly preachy at points and has scenes that are manufactured sentimentality, the final few pages where Cap visits a dying WW2 soldier named Stanley Klein in the hospital (whom he originally saved back in the war) gets me every time. Including the line, “They gave me this Purple Heart… but if it wasn’t for you, I would’ve gotten it posthumously.” and the way Ordway drew the pain on Cap’s face as Stanley gives him the Purple Heart is just a masterpiece of art.

I know there are a few others, but this one always sticks out because I can’t help but shed a few tears every time I read it. Dan Jurgens run on that book was criminally under-rated.

[...] that to include the subquestion of whether or not they should age. I’m glad he did, because I actually wanted to expand upon my answer to Ryan Frank’s question from last time, with regards to the differences I percieve between Marvel and DC. Because in my opinion, whether [...]