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I’m Just Sayin’…#30
Before we get back to the principle topic of discussion, I wanna take a quick second and draw open the curtains to KNEE-JERK REACTION THEATRE once more, as NEWSARAMA reports that the CW will soon be airing a pilot in the vein of the highly successful SMALLVILLE, and this time it’s the story of Robin…
…before he became Robin.
According to Newsarama, Variety offered this blurb with regards toTHE GRAYSONS - In the one-hour “Graysons,” which will be set in modern times, young DJ [as Richard John "Dick" Grayson shall be known] will face challenges involving first loves, young rivals and his family as he grows up. [Executive Producers Kelly] Souders and [Brian] Peterson have come up with an original take on the character.
MY KNEE-JERK REACTION: Pass before the pilot even airs.
Mind you, a well-told story is a well-told story, so if THE GRAYSONS can deliver, more power to’em. Nevertheless, if it takes off, I can see myself caring as little about this series as I do about SMALLVILLE. Sorry to say, but I’m not very interested in a series centered around superheroes before they became superheroes. Especially when it comes to DC characters, where the iconic nature of the heroic identity has always held so much weight. Give me Clark Kent, and I’ll expect Superman. Give me “DJ” Grayson, and I’ll expect Robin, and in turn I’ll expect Batman. And since I already know that we won’t get that until the very end of the program - after all, we can’t have a Robin while there are still Graysons - there’s no incentive for me to watch. So good luck, but no thanks.
Ok, back to the main discussion, set forth by the possibility that Marvel Films and 20th Century Fox could take another shot at DAREDEVIL as a film franchise, which has led me to get into several of the many missteps taken in the original movie. Last week, I got into the COSTUMING, and how many grossly unnecessary changes were made to Hornhead’s outfit, creating a heavy, leather eyesore…
…when with just a little ingenuity as such employed by costume designers for - ironically enough - a superhero series that doesn’t exactly have superheroes in it…
Alan Ritchson here depicted as Aquaman in a SMALLVILLE episode.
…we could’ve gotten to see Daredevil in all his glory. Now we move on to another big part of superhero movies - CASTING.
I’ve sat in many a discussion over this hypothetical superhero movie or that, getting into how Actor A would be GREAT for the role of Comic Character B, so on and so forth. I’ve developed the opinion that, when it comes to the main roles in a superhero movie, the most important thing is that the actor should be the precise blend of star recognition, facial resemblance and acting ability, that s/he be completely swallowed up by the character s/he portrays.
Case in point: Who do you see here?
Do you see Christopher Reeve, or do you see Superman?
How about this one?
Or this one?
And of course, the best examples of the genre yet…
Who do you see?
Who do you see?
Who do you see?
All of these are prime examples of well-chosen actors to play characters who through years of publishing and well-written, well-drawn storys, sagas, storyarcs, have been elevated to iconic status. You don’t see them as who they really are, so much as you see them for the character they’re meant to play. They’re just the right amount of famous, and just the right amount of facial resemblance - aided along the way via costuming and makeup - and they have just the right acting ability to make it all work.
This is where DAREDEVIL fell short.
Don’t get me wrong, now - David Keith as Battlin’ Jack Murdock?
A fine choice. Jon Favreau as Foggy Nelson?
A highlight of the film. But the guy holding it all together?
In my single solitary opinion. Ben Affleck as Matt Murdock/Daredevil? Dial M for mmmmmistake.
This wasn’t the only problem I had with the casting - the casting choice for Bullseye was another mistake, and I’m not so sure if the choices for Elektra and the Kingpin were the best either…and was Karen Page even in the movie? In any case, the main problem I had when I was watching the movie, was in the lead player. I didn’t feel as though I was watching Matt Murdock in the movie. I may have known that Tobey MacGuire was playing Peter Parker, but once any of the three SPIDER-MAN movies started, it was though Tobey receded into the role, and all that was left was Peter.
Not so in the case of DAREDEVIL - Ben Affleck was already a little too famous all on his own, and as a result Ben Affleck was too close to the surface of the character he was playing. So once the movie got going, I could not get past it. Not once did I see Matt Murdock. Heck, you’d think when he was playing Daredevil, the mask would’ve helped. Instead, I felt like I was watching Ben Affleck sporting dyed hair and red sunglasses, Ben Affleck in a horn-headed leather mask, Ben Affleck making out with Jennifer Garner…I just couldn’t get past the fact that I was watching Ben Affleck portraying Daredevil, instead of just watching Daredevil.
So if Marvel and 20th Century want to give this another go, they might want to get someone who may not necessarily be as much of a household name. When I first started writing this series, I was all set to suggest Alan Ritchson, pictured a few paragraphs higher as Aquaman on SMALLVILLE, since he seemed to have just the right build. However, since I don’t watch the show, I know nothing about his acting ability.
Then, I rented SPEED RACER on OnDemand, and not only was I entertained beyond my wildest expectations - I wasn’t that big of a fan of the cartoon so I was only peripherally interested in the movie - but I think I saw just the man to play the part of the scrappy blind lawyer/guardian of Hell’s Kitchen.
And wouldja look at that - he's already named Matt!
Matthew Fox is already well-known to fans of the television show LOST, but again, I wouldn’t have known since I don’t watch the show. However, when I saw him play this guy…
…I was convinced in an instant. It’s in the voice he employs during his first appearance as Racer X after rescuing Taejo Togokhan, and the down-to-business, grim arrogance he projects throughout the rest of the movie when he’s rocking that black mask. It’s in the sheer glee that radiates from his being, the scoundrel’s grin he flashes while punching out hot-rodding Vikings in the midst of the insanely lethal Casa Cristo 5000 race - all while behind the wheel of a somersaulting car. It’s in the deep sadness on his face when we learn that he is in fact Speed’s long, thought-dead brother Rex…this is your Man Without Fear, folks. I have no doubt. Just let him shine, give him a great script, a great supporting cast, don’t saddle him with a heavy leather costume or a ton of useless CGI, and you will have a killer of a movie. I’m certain of it.
I wanna invite you to write in and let me know what you might be thinking in terms of other casting moves, because next week I want to discuss STORY. Hope you’re enjoying the read, and we’ll be back with more! Til then, I’m Greg Manuel and I’m just sayin’, is all…
Last 5 posts by Greg Manuel
- I'm Just Sayin'...#36 - November 19th, 2008
- I'm Just Sayin'...#35 - November 12th, 2008
- I'm Just Sayin'...#34 - November 5th, 2008
- I'm Just Sayin'...#33 - October 30th, 2008
- I'm Just Sayin'...#32 - October 23rd, 2008
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You know what’s funny?
I was watching Speed Racer with my cousin last week and looked over to him and said “Wow, imagine Matthew Fox as Daredevil.”
Know what he said?
“Was that movie even worth watching?”
“It would be if he was in it.”
Great minds, and I couldn’t agree with you more about actors being able to get inside their roles in most cases.
Wolverine is my favorite example, never once have I looked at him and seen Hugh Jackman. I only ever see Wolverine.
Grey - all I gotta say man, is hell to the YEAH! I completely forgot about Hugh Jackman, he is another excellent example. And what’s interesting about his Wolverine is that, height notwithstanding, he gave us Logan EXACTLY as he appears in the comics - scruffy, borderline savage…and he totally sold the Wolver-do!
You know how sometimes superhero costumes become altered unnecessarily when translated into live action? Doesn’t the Wolver-do, a hairstyle that NOBODY in their right mind would sport in real life, completely debunk that theory once and for all?
That’s why I say there was no excuse not to give us movie versions of Daredevil and Bullseye that were closer to their comic designs. If you can give us the Wolver-do without batting an eye, you can give us a proper Daredevil and a proper Bullseye.
And incidentally…whenever I watch the Prestige? All I can think about is how this is probably the closest we’ll ever get to Batman vs. Wolverine. How I love it!
You’re speaking my mind man, seriously. I’ve actually sold the Prestige on people by saying “It’s Batman and Wolverine.” One of my favorite movies.
I’m admittedly still shocked that he made the hair work, I mean, half the artists in comics can’t make it work! It was damn near perfect.
You know what I really want to see? Thor. In his classic costume, without the chain mail. And make him clean cut with the winged helmet. I want to see somebody make that work, because if they can pull off Wolverine’s costume, and if a believable Thing can be done without CGI, then you can do classic Thor.
Absolutely - although, I certainly wouldn’t mind Olivier Coipel’s revision of Thor’s attire either because it really is just that great of a redesign. But even still, it’s a close second to the original Kirby.
I think these film and television properties have to show a certain level of commitment…the costume doesn’t have to be a verbatim translation of the comic book version, but a much stronger effort needs to be made in a lot of cases.
To that end I really hope Caroline Cranstoun gets more work her way. If her designs for Aquaman and Green Arrow in SMALLVILLE are any indication, her importance to superhero costume design in film and television could easily and deservedly become analagous to that of Andrea Romano’s in cartoon voice casting.
whats so impressive about the smallville costumes? i dont get it…
and i quite liked the red daredevi leather, apart from the mask and the cuff
Hey-hey, Manolis - there are actually three main things that I like about the Aquaman example, that I think makes it a faithful, yet credible live-action iteration of Aquaman’s outfit.
1)It’s lightweight to allow, one would imagine, the amount of time Aquaman spends in the water.
2)It evokes the color scheme so it’s immediately recognizable as Aquaman.
3) It’s form-fitting without looking silly - which I attribute as being a likely result of the material.
If I had my way for a revival of the DAREDEVIL film franchise, I would use this outfit as a template…specifically the material it was made out of. Being that he needs to be able to move fast, it looks light enough so that it would accomodate his street-leaping, thug-punching needs.
The Aquaman costume works because while it isn’t meant to be a costume, you can take one look at it and go “Aquaman”. It’s simple and to the point.
Daredevil looked like they were trying too hard.
And I do like Coipel’s redesign, but classic Thor is SO much harder to pull off.
Greg, oh, Greg, I’ve got to disagree with you on Daredevil.
Not to the level of our disagreements regarding Waid’s “Unthinkable”, but a disagreement none-the-less
Now, it is a flawed film. Even though the director’s cut is infinitely better than the studio version (and I highly recommend people to give that one a shot… it’s a much darker, much more in tune Daredevil story), it’s still flawed.
But, I frankly like the costume in the movie better than the usual fare artists draw him in (like in that JRJR picture in IJS#29). It’s why I love the DD#100 cover, as it’s drawn with some of the leather-like sensibilities I liked in the film costume.
Now, on your points on the costume, I disagree with the ascertation that the leather would slow him down too much and that he needs to be stealthy. As you said, he has a bit of a death-wish and he’s known as the Man Without Fear. So if that’s the case, a guy who rushes off to battle every night, somewhat gets off at the fact that he doesn’t run away from a challenge, might just have a notion of “Let’s see if I can survive if I keep stacking the odds against me”, if the leather was truly slowing him down. Maybe that’s why he wears it. As you said, Matt would never admit it, but perhaps he runs around in a red outfit (that no matter what shade, draws attention and is definitely NOT stealthy), wears gear that doesn’t necessarily protect him and only fights with his bare-hands and billy-clubs because he wants people to hurt him. A bit of a guilt-complex (that is much higher on the psychopathic scale than even Batman) and, like you said, death-wish.
In that case, I don’t see how this costume negates your points, with the exception of the boots (as yes, I’d like the boxing boots myself).
And then on casting… I honestly didn’t mind Colin Farrell as Bullseye (but I agree, his look was atrocious and whoever thought it was a good idea to keep playing a snake’s rattle whenever he whipped his coat around… *ugh*), Jennifer Gardner wasn’t bad (but she shouldn’t have been in THIS film, I’ll get to that) and I freakin’ loved Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin.
He was good in the studio cut but he was EXCELLENT in the Director’s Cut. There’s one scene that when it happens in the DC (and you’d know it), Duncan’s the Kingpin. I couldn’t see Butterbean or anyone else top that.
And on Ben Affleck, I can understand why some people can’t get past him as an actor. But I could and I bought him in Daredevil. The tortured existence, living from moment-to-moment, girlfriend-to-girlfriend because he just can’t believe he’ll keep on living and it isn’t worth it to try to keep any other relationship going (aside from Foggy) because it could all end on a rooftop… I saw it.
There’s one picture (which I’ll link to in a second) that I look at and it’s freakin’ Daredevil. It’s not Ben Affleck in a bad costume, it is Daredevil and he is gonna kick criminal @$$.
In a lot of ways, it’s why although I knew Wesley Snipes, wasn’t necessarily a big fan of his, I still bought into his portrayal of Blade. Yeah, I can see it’s him acting as the character, but I can buy all the stuff underneath the Hollywood exterior that I’m familiar with.
Now, that isn’t to say if they decide to bring back Daredevil (which I was hoping that if they did, it wouldn’t be under FOX, which sucks that it will) that Matthew Fox wouldn’t be suitable, because he would. He’s actually my #1 choice for it because, I’ve seen Speed Racer and he had that quality to him. Heck, one my favorite Youtube clips is the 4 minute Showest trailer and the last comment posted was by someone who said, “Why hasn’t Matthew Fox played a superhero yet? He’d make a perfect Daredevil!”… so it’s not just us who think so, it seems other people do too.
In all honesty, I also think Daredevil has one of the better film scores out there too by Graeme Revell. The Daredevil theme itself sits in my mp3 pile along with the Superman score, the Spectacular Spider-Man theme, the Ang Lee Hulk Theme and “The Batman” themes as my favorites.
Speaking of which, you can listen to it (and see the picture I was referring to here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADFfbAfGCU)
Really, my #1 issue with Daredevil is the story. They tried to put too much of the Daredevil iconic canon into the film, which made it severely disjointed.
I mean, honestly, they wanted to have…
Matt’s origins
Matt meeting/romancing Elektra
A whole court case (which is how Matt finds and exposes Kingpin)
Matt/Daredevil does detective work
Daredevil fighting Bullseye
Daredevil fighting Elektra
Bullseye fighting/killing Elektra
Daredevil fighting Bullseye
Daredevil fighting/defeating/dethroning Kingpin
Ben Urich exposing Kingpin/uncovering Matt’s identity
With most of this being told via FLASHBACK.
Doesn’t that sound a bit loaded to you too? Like perhaps they should’ve split the film in too… or tackle some of these elements here but save the rest for a sequel?
These are really apparent in the studio cut but are still an issue in the Director’s cut.
It’s the Spider-Man 3 problem. There was just too much crap that they tried to do in one film that should’ve been spread over two, if not more.
That’s my major issue, that’s what hurts Daredevil as a film for me. Mark Steven Johnson delivered a decent film. I loved the cinematography, I loved the score (with exception of some of the pop/rock soundtrack bits), I loved 90% of the actors/acting in it and I think you could have built a great second film from this, if you had a steadier hand.
But now we won’t and I doubt FOX is going to really allow anyone to do a great job, because they’re the biggest studio that interferes with films, all the time. Just read some of the gossip reports on Wolverine, it’s rather depressing!
But there’s my thoughts.
Awwwww yeah…my man RYAN is up in it! We’re about to throw down, now. Especially since you’re jumpin’ ahead of me - Part Three is Story, dude! You gotta wait til after I spout off on that next week before you lay into me!
A lot of my quibbles with DAREDEVIL - which I’ll grant are based on the theatrical release, which is the version I treat as canon, since that is the one Marvel/20th Century FOX placed their bets on - are largely things that were okay, but that could’ve been done better. Perhaps the one time that Ben-as-Daredevil looked good to me, was from the transformation into Daredevil, to the bar fight. I think I made that concession in Part One - from the first scenes where we see Ben Affleck as an adult Matt Murdock to watching him lay into that seedy bar full of thugs in the first act of the movie…that was probably the best action sequence of the whole film. It was full of smashmouth action and chaos, no tacked-on CGI…shoot, as far as I’m concerned, that whole section was the best the movie ever got!
But getting back to the costuming - most of the time, watching him in that thick leather suit, it was like I was watching some kind of action figure variant version of Daredevil; the kind that’d come packaged with a toy motorcycle and a ripcord. Like Grey said, it was like they were trying too hard where they didn’t have to.
And moreover, my point about his suit being too heavy isn’t just that it weighs him down too much, but also that it was too much like body armor - which kind of took away from the death-wish/come-and-get-me-see-if-I-care element of his character. They could’ve tweaked that part of it just a little more, and added just a little more dimension to his character just by giving him a lighter costume; it would’ve reinforced that element of his character, the myriad of scars on his back make just a tiny bit more sense…and of course, with a thinner outfit, then you can bring in the boxer boots!
Colin Farrell as Bullseye: I think the thing that makes his casting a mistake, is that much like Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck, his selection was purely based on star power. There was NO way they were going to cover that face with a black mask…and as much as I can understand that move, that’s how we got cheated out of a potentially better Bullseye. I wish Marvel/20th Century had made the effort to find someone for whom both the black mask AND the bald, target-scar-on-forehead look could have worked.
When I think about it, probably the biggest thing that handicapped Michael Duncan Clarke’s portrayal of the Kingpin was in fact the script he was given. It just may not be the selection of Clarke himself, and maybe the Director’s Cut redeems him. But that’s the thing about Director’s Cut editions that always bothers me…it always begs the question of whether they should even be necessary. And in the case of this particular movie, like many of the choices made throughout its production, all these little missteps that added up to make such a flawed movie, it smacks of a strategy designed to make the most money, as opposed to delivering the best film possible.
Maybe on top of casting Matthew Fox in the lead, maybe Marvel should’ve just let Columbia Pictures have the next attempt, too. LOL
Greg, I can’t help it! If I’m gonna address Daredevil, I’m going after the whole thing, baby
In all honesty, Greg, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the costume. Because, again, I just don’t see how it provides that much protection. If it looked like body armor ala Batman’s suit (in any of the films) then I’d might agree. Still, I don’t think if you put Tobey Maquire in his Spider-Man suit and Ben Affleck in the Daredevil one side by side and shoot a gun, then a shotgun and then stabbed both men, that DD’s suit would hold up more or bring more protection. I just don’t see that happening.
Casting: See, I agree with you there. Too much of the film was stunt-casting to grab bank/opening night power and that was a mistake. And having watched the behind the scenes of Daredevil, I can say that falls firmly on MSJ, as he wanted these people.
And although I see the point of arguing on just the ‘canon’ version, the reason I don’t (and keep bringing up the Director’s Cut) is because this is a film that the only people who wanted the Theatrical Cut where Fox Studios and Gary Foster the Producer (and as sad as it is, Foster is the only one left defending the Theatrical Cut). Avi Arad, MSJ, Frank Miller and virtually everyone else associated in the production wanted the Director’s Cut.
And yeah, no doubt that most Director’s Cuts (and unrated editions) are nothing but empty husks to try to make more money… only a few measly minutes added that don’t add to the film overall (and in the case of Superman: The Movie, I detest the Director’s Cut because most scenes re-inserted end up slowing the film down… aside from Superman entering Luthor’s Lair and the scene of Kal-El’s ship passing by the Phantom Zoners). This is one of the few times where Director’s Cut is actually earned, because you’ll literally be watching a whole different film.
Because to use Duncan as an example, the problem wasn’t with the script… it was the fact that to get a PG-13 rating, most of the scenes that actually gave Kingpin some depth and menace were taken out. In the end, we just saw a guy who somehow ruled NY’s criminal underworld but wasn’t terribly intimidating.
Daredevil is a flawed movie, no doubt, but not accounting for the absolutely inane way the Studio kept under-cutting it’s own people to make a good film I think is unfair. Because if we’re analyzing the film, we should take into account the post-production too when discussing acting, script, costumes, ETC. It’s kind of like putting all the blame on Fincher for the abomination of Alien 3, when FOX itself had a lot to blame for that mess.
Personally, the only time I’m going to get excited for a new Daredevil movie is either when Tom Rothman is out of the Exec chair at FOX (notorious for screwing with Directors and Editors) or if the film rights lapse back to Marvel Studios to do. Then maybe Daredevil will have justice done to him.
[...] in their initial foray; in Part One, we discussed the COSTUMING problem. Part Two was devoted to CASTING - and it seems to be unanimous that Matthew Fox would make a straight-up bitchin’ Man [...]